How do I file a bug?

https://www.mozilla.org/
Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
for building the source and submitting a patch.
(Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
asking here already. Walk me through the process of
discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
anymore so I need some help.)

I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-through:

1. https://www.mozilla.org/

2. Scroll all the way down to the black section and click on "Firefox"
(but note that this was because my brain has a clear distinction between
"mozilla" and "firefox", so I was looking for anything firefox-specific
as it didn't make sense to me to file a bug against mozilla.)

3. Click on "support" up near the top.

4. Oh. A general support page. Type "file a bug" into the search box.

5. Top result is "How do I submit a bug for Firefox sync?
<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-submit-bug-firefox-sync>".
Not exactly what I wanted, but perhaps close enough. Click on it.

6. The resulting Table of Contents has a section "File a bug". Click on it.

7. That takes you to text that says "file a bug here" with a link to
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Mozilla%20Services>.
Click on it.

8. That goes to a Permission Denied page "Sorry, either the product
/Mozilla Services/ does not exist or you aren't authorized to enter a
bug into it." Click on "File a New Bug" in the upper right.

9. Victory!

In reality, I'm not sure I would make it through all that. I'd give up
at some point and do

N: google search "file a bug on firefox"

N+1: First result: "How do I post a bug report on Mozilla Firefox? |
Firefox Support Forum"
<https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwioy7Hs9e3dAhVDmK0KHTYcAqoQFjAAegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.mozilla.org%2Fquestions%2F1188220&usg=AOvVaw1xLeJ8Yjo3BxV1Wxy_gfu4>

N+2: Follow the link there to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/

I know that's not what you asked. I agree that a nice path from
www.mozilla.org would be beneficial, especially for promoting the
volunteer aspect of the project.

fantasai

2018-10-05 00:14:47 UTC

[...]

I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
instructions? :D

I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.

We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
promoting the volunteer aspect of Mozilla:
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
actually becoming a technical contributor...

From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
demoralizing that there even is any. :(

I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
to look!

Fwiw, here's how I arrived at becoming a technical contributor:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-involved.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newlayout/bugathon.html

“One of the things that people seem to like best about the
existing content on mozilla.org is that it is written by people,
for people, without bluster or self-promotion.”
-- jwz, Mozilla Documentation Style Guide, 1999

~fantasai

Mike Hommey

2018-10-05 00:41:30 UTC

[...]

I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
instructions? :D

I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.

We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
actually becoming a technical contributor...
From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
demoralizing that there even is any. :(
I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
to look!
https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-involved.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newlayout/bugathon.html

I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
site.

Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list of
3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.

And what items:
- simple
- Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
- Use Firefox on your phone
- Discover why we can't live without encryption

- more challenging:
- watch someone live hack on Firefox
- Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
developer tools challenger)
- Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app

Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
(and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)

Mike

Kohei Yoshino

2018-10-05 01:45:01 UTC

As a longtime contributor, I’m also concerned about the current situation. The contribution starting point (or Mozilla’s information architecture in general) is a total mess.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/
https://codetribute.mozilla.org/
https://activate.mozilla.community/
https://campus.mozilla.community/
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/participate/
https://mozilla.github.io/webdev/
https://www.whatcanidoformozilla.org/

and that’s not all. The Participation team should be doing a much better job here.

Speaking to Bugzilla where I’m volunteering as a UX designer, improving the onboarding experience for both contributors and new Mozilla employees is one of my goals in 2019 [1], but it will be possible only when stakeholders are involved.

[1] https://github.com/bugzilla/bugzilla-ux/wiki/Bugzilla-7-Roadmap#even-more

-Kohei

[...]

I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
instructions? :D

I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.

I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
site.
Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list of
3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.
- simple
- Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
- Use Firefox on your phone
- Discover why we can't live without encryption
- watch someone live hack on Firefox
- Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
developer tools challenger)
- Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app
Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
(and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)

Jared Hirsch

2018-10-08 18:58:19 UTC

Hey all,

A big part of attracting and retaining great contributors is the tone we
set when we talk to one another.

If you see a problem and want to make things better, then you should come
up with a solution, and also do your best to communicate it effectively to
the relevant people. (Bonus points for volunteering to help implement the
fix, even if it turns out to be different from the solution you proposed.)
This is an effective way to make actual progress. Calling out team A on
team B's mailing list is not.

If you want to understand why things are the way they are, and propose
solutions to the problems that you see, you can connect with different
teams within Mozilla via their public discussion forums, like the
Participation team's Discourse instance[1] or the dev-webdev list[2]. The
Mozilla wiki has pages for all these teams, and is a good starting point.

I also want to point out that Mozilla activities are governed by the
community participation guidelines. Note that "Be Respectful" is the first
guideline listed:
https://www.mozilla.org/about/governance/policies/participation/

Let's work together to build a positive, welcoming community, and help each
other to stay focused on solving problems in a constructive manner.

Cheers,

Jared

[1] https://discourse.mozilla.org/tags/c/mozillians/participation
[2] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-webdev

Post by Kohei Yoshino
As a longtime contributor, I’m also concerned about the current situation.
The contribution starting point (or Mozilla’s information architecture in
general) is a total mess.
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/
https://codetribute.mozilla.org/
https://activate.mozilla.community/
https://campus.mozilla.community/
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/participate/
https://mozilla.github.io/webdev/
https://www.whatcanidoformozilla.org/
and that’s not all. The Participation team should be doing a much better job here.
Speaking to Bugzilla where I’m volunteering as a UX designer, improving
the onboarding experience for both contributors and new Mozilla employees
is one of my goals in 2019 [1], but it will be possible only when
stakeholders are involved.
[1]
https://github.com/bugzilla/bugzilla-ux/wiki/Bugzilla-7-Roadmap#even-more
-Kohei

Post by fantasai
https://www.mozilla.org/
Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
for building the source and submitting a patch.
(Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
asking here already. Walk me through the process of
discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
anymore so I need some help.)

[...]

I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
instructions? :D

I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-involved.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newlayout/bugathon.html

Post by Mike Hommey
I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
site.
Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list

Post by Mike Hommey
3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.
- simple
- Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
- Use Firefox on your phone
- Discover why we can't live without encryption
- watch someone live hack on Firefox
- Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
developer tools challenger)
- Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app
Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
(and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)

_______________________________________________
dev-platform mailing list
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform

Jim Blandy

2018-10-08 20:46:25 UTC

Below is the text from the code of conduct. The CoC does say to be
positive, but it is also at pains to emphasize the importance of being able
to speak directly, being open to being wrong, and valuing others' input.
I read frustration being expressed in this thread, but not disrespect. The
original criticism seems on-point, and there are many specifics provided.
The obligation to criticize constructively does not, I think, extend to an
obligation to "come up with a solution". A bug report without a patch
should still be welcome, if it's accurate and actionable.
The original question does suggest being unsure where to even report the
problem, but at this point that has been cleared up. I agree with Jared
that further discussion belongs where the people who can do something about
the problem can see it.

Be Respectful

Value each other’s ideas, styles and viewpoints. We may not always agree,
but disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. Be open to different
possibilities and to being wrong. Be kind in all interactions and
communications, especially when debating the merits of different options.
Be aware of your impact and how intense interactions may be affecting
people. Be direct, constructive and positive. Take responsibility for your
impact and your mistakes – if someone says they have been harmed through
your words or actions, listen carefully, apologize sincerely, and correct
the behavior going forward.
Be Direct but Professional
We are likely to have some discussions about if and when criticism is
respectful and when it’s not. We *must* be able to speak directly when we
disagree and when we think we need to improve. We cannot withhold hard
truths. Doing so respectfully is hard, doing so when others don’t seem to
be listening is harder, and hearing such comments when one is the recipient
can be even harder still. We need to be honest and direct, as well as
respectful.

Kohei Yoshino

2018-10-09 09:05:04 UTC

Sorry, I pushed the Send button too quickly, and my message was wrongly nuanced. I didn’t have any intention to complain; as a contributor working in the WebDev and UX areas, I’d rather like to help here. I have been doing some research on Mozilla web properties (that’s why I could provide a list of the relevant sites) [1], and even made a quick mock-up of an improved page several years ago. And as mentioned earlier, improving the Bugzilla onboarding experience is on my 2019 to-do list. I’m more than happy to discuss the matter with the stakeholders online or in person at All Hands!

-Kohei

[1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vh8lAXh7cQ5VVBW8EWu7pTA1EaNVvpVplLFGPBELRHw

Post by Jared Hirsch
Hey all,
A big part of attracting and retaining great contributors is the tone we set when we talk to one another.
If you see a problem and want to make things better, then you should come up with a solution, and also do your best to communicate it effectively to the relevant people. (Bonus points for volunteering to help implement the fix, even if it turns out to be different from the solution you proposed.) This is an effective way to make actual progress. Calling out team A on team B's mailing list is not.
If you want to understand why things are the way they are, and propose solutions to the problems that you see, you can connect with different teams within Mozilla via their public discussion forums, like the Participation team's Discourse instance[1] or the dev-webdev list[2]. The Mozilla wiki has pages for all these teams, and is a good starting point.
I also want to point out that Mozilla activities are governed by the community participation guidelines. Note that "Be Respectful" is the first guideline listed: https://www.mozilla.org/about/governance/policies/participation/
Let's work together to build a positive, welcoming community, and help each other to stay focused on solving problems in a constructive manner.
Cheers,
Jared
[1] https://discourse.mozilla.org/tags/c/mozillians/participation
[2] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-webdev
As a longtime contributor, I’m also concerned about the current situation. The contribution starting point (or Mozilla’s information architecture in general) is a total mess.
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/
https://codetribute.mozilla.org/
https://activate.mozilla.community/
https://campus.mozilla.community/
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/participate/
https://mozilla.github.io/webdev/
https://www.whatcanidoformozilla.org/
and that’s not all. The Participation team should be doing a much better job here.
Speaking to Bugzilla where I’m volunteering as a UX designer, improving the onboarding experience for both contributors and new Mozilla employees is one of my goals in 2019 [1], but it will be possible only when stakeholders are involved.
[1] https://github.com/bugzilla/bugzilla-ux/wiki/Bugzilla-7-Roadmap#even-more
-Kohei

[...]

I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
instructions? :D

I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org <http://www.mozilla.org> would be beneficial,
especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.

I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
site.
Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list of
3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.
- simple
- Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
- Use Firefox on your phone
- Discover why we can't live without encryption
- watch someone live hack on Firefox
- Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
developer tools challenger)
- Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app
Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
(and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)

Francesco Lodolo [:flod]

2018-10-09 05:47:17 UTC

For what it's worth, there are a few open bugs on file already for the
/contribute page, the main one I'm aware of is
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1275323

At this point, I guess the main stakeholder in this conversation would
be the Participation team?

Francesco

[...]

I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
instructions? :D

I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.

I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
site.
Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list of
3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.
- simple
- Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
- Use Firefox on your phone
- Discover why we can't live without encryption
- watch someone live hack on Firefox
- Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
developer tools challenger)
- Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app
Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
(and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)
Mike
_______________________________________________
dev-platform mailing list
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform

KWierso

2018-10-05 00:42:48 UTC